From Opera Stages to Voice Therapy: How Erin Ziegler and Jennifer Gill Built a Niche SLP Practice in Portland

Erin Ziegler has a PhD in communication sciences and a theater degree from the University of Michigan. Jennifer Gill performed opera professionally and holds a graduate degree from Indiana University in opera performance. Together, they co-own The Wellness Group for Voice, Speech, and Swallowing, LLC, a private practice in Portland, Oregon, that serves everyone from Broadway performers to three-year-olds with vocal fold nodules.

Their path to business ownership isn't typical. But in a field where voice therapy outcomes depend on the clinician truly understanding the instrument, their conservatory training gives them an edge that's hard to replicate.

Why Portland Needed a Different Kind of Voice Practice

When Erin and Jennifer launched the Wellness Group in August 2019, they identified a real gap on Portland's east side. There was virtually no access to adult and pediatric voice services. Gender-affirming voice and communication services were equally scarce.

They didn't start with a brick-and-mortar clinic. They kept overhead low, initially seeing clients out of Erin's home. They were shopping for a physical space right before COVID hit, and they're grateful that lease never got signed.

Because they'd already set up teletherapy infrastructure before the pandemic, the transition to fully remote services was smooth. And they didn't treat teletherapy as a compromise. They invested in state-of-the-art microphones with flat frequency response curves, preamplifiers for gain control, and professional backdrops so clients know they've arrived at the right place, even in a Zoom room.

"With online services, you're just out there in the interwebs," Erin says. "You want to feel when you arrive someplace that you're with the person you're supposed to be with and it's a safe space to explore. Especially exploring voice is a very personal process."

The Co-Ownership Model: Same Mission, Different Strengths

Running a practice with a partner isn't for everyone. But Erin and Jennifer make a strong case for it.

Jennifer had been in Portland for 20 years and brought deep local connections. Erin's career had taken him across the country and internationally, giving him a broader referral network. They divided the work of spreading the word: Jennifer leveraged local relationships with ENTs and other providers, while Erin connected with colleagues nationwide through social media and professional contacts.

They literally set designated days to hit the pavement, walking into ENT offices, scheduling presentations, making calls. They also launched a newsletter called Vocal Notes, published three times a year, aimed at both potential patients and physicians.

"I see it as a way to let potential referral sources who are physicians know about what an SLP does and advocate for our services when it's appropriate," Erin explains. That kind of outreach takes time, but it builds the trust that drives long-term referrals.

Their advice for anyone considering a co-ownership model? Be clear that you share the same vision and mission. "Erin and I were really aligned in that we wanted to create something different and authentic in Portland," Jennifer says.

Efficient Treatment, Fewer Sessions, Better Outcomes

The Wellness Group's treatment philosophy is built around efficiency. Most clients complete therapy in four to six sessions. That's not a limitation. It's the goal.

They front-load sessions closer together at the start, then spread them out as the client progresses. The result: clients get better faster and reclaim their time. As Erin puts it, "My goal for my patients is to have them do the things that they want to do with their lives, not spending time with me."

That approach also keeps the caseload dynamic. Clients cycle through quickly, which means Erin and Jennifer are constantly meeting new people across a wide range of ages and conditions: presbyphonia in older adults, muscle tension dysphonia in performers, vocal fold nodules in kids, and gender-affirming voice work.

By March 2021, they were bringing on a clinical fellow, Libby Lavella, who is licensed in California, has a linguistics background, and happens to be a Grammy-nominated vocalist. The hiring bar isn't about resumes, though. "There's no requirement other than a desire to help," Erin says.

Getting Creative with Billing and Access to Care

The Wellness Group accepts Medicare Part B and has a spot contract with Kaiser. Beyond that, they're out-of-network private pay. They provide a super bill with all necessary codes so clients can submit for reimbursement on their own.

The Medicare decision was intentional. It's a consistent payer that covers most of what they bill for, and older adults on fixed incomes need that coverage most.

For services that insurance rarely covers, like gender-affirming voice and communication, they got creative. They developed a group model that reduces cost while building community among participants. The first series ran in person. The second shifted online. Both have been successful.

They also offer bundled service packages at a discount compared to pay-as-you-go rates. It's another way to keep specialized speech therapy accessible without sacrificing the quality of care.

Looking Ahead: Mobile Services and Medical Pods

Instead of pursuing a traditional brick-and-mortar space, Erin and Jennifer are thinking differently about what a clinic can look like. They're exploring mobile services, potentially offering imaging through a van or RV. Erin even floats the idea of a medical pod concept, similar to Portland's famous food cart pods, but for healthcare.

"You'd have disciplines that you need: speech pathology, maybe OT, PT. There could even be equipment outside for the PT to use," Erin describes. "It minimizes any exposure with small quarters and lots of people inside."

It's a creative vision that fits Portland's culture and reflects the same principle that's guided the Wellness Group from the start: make care accessible, keep it personal, and don't be afraid to do it differently.

Co-owning a practice means twice the clinical talent and twice the admin work. ClinicNote is a HIPAA-compliant EMR built for private practices and university clinics, handling documentation, scheduling, and billing in one place so you can focus on your clients instead of paperwork. See how ClinicNote works.

Transcript

Kadie: You are listening to Clinic Chats. Clinic Chats is a multidisciplinary therapy podcast that was created for students, professionals, clinic directors, and supervisors. Clinic Chats is bridging the gap between graduate programs and professionals, sharing personal journeys of the smallest of private practice startups, large and expanding practices, as well as university clinic triumphs and tribulations. We hope you'll find our podcast informative and helpful in your career endeavors. Clinic Chats is sponsored by ClinicNote, an electronic medical record company for private practice and university clinics. ClinicNote was designed to make scheduling, documentation, report writing, and billing effective, efficient, and HIPAA compliant.

Kadie: Today on the Clinic Chats podcast, I've got our co-owners of The Wellness Group, Voice, Speech, and Swallowing, LLC. I have Erin Ziegler and Jennifer Gill. Thanks so much for joining us.

Jennifer: Thanks for having us.

Erin: Absolutely. Thank you for having us.

Kadie: You're co-owners, and that's always just something that intrigues me because when I was in private practice, it was just easy to do what I want when I wanted it. It's just different, I am sure. Let's go one at a time, get your SLP background and what has led you to business ownership today. Erin, would you like to go first?

Erin: Sure. I have over 10 years of experience primarily in academic medicine, academic speech pathology. I have been working in large multidisciplinary voice centers during that time. Over those 10 years, which included my clinical fellowship year and also a PhD along the way, I realized that there was a lot of barriers for patients getting the access to care and making sure that the care was effective as well as efficient.

Erin: After 10 years or more than 10 years in academic speech pathology, there was a desire to try something new. It just so happens that we were slightly, I think, a little ahead of the curve being set up for telepractice because of our desire to do something different and make access easier for our clients. It's been a fun journey so far for me going from focusing on a multidisciplinary in-house team to building relationships with our team because it's still a team that's involved, but it's now reaching out to people and engaging with them and building those relationships. That's my background and how I got to the Wellness Group.

Kadie: That's great. Where were you through your academic years, through those first 10 years?

Erin: I have a theater background, a BFA from the University of Michigan, as well as a BA in Latin American studies with Spanish. That actually has been very relevant to my practice in speech pathology because I work with the voice. Having that performance background has been incredibly helpful. It's not necessary, but I find it helpful for the work that I do.

Erin: Having a background in Latin American studies is also important because we provide services in Spanish and we live in a pluralistic society where there's multiple cultures and ethnic groups. I'm often finding that I'm engaging in my practice with more appreciation of cultural similarities and differences that would affect what we do.

Erin: Then I went on to a master's degree in speech language pathology at Northwestern. As I said, I have a PhD that I obtained with Kitty Viterlini-Abbott at the University of Pittsburgh. Beyond that, clinically, I did a fellowship at Emory Voice Center and worked at the University of Pittsburgh Voice Center as well. In the University of Hawaii, medical school, part of their communication sciences and disorders department, Tripola Army Medical Center in Honolulu, and most recently, OHSU. Those are some of the places that I've been.

Kadie: Wow. Yes. Tell me about your background. Jennifer, tell me a little bit about yours.

Jennifer: My background, my previous career was as a professional opera performer, singer, and vocal instructor. I bring that knowledge now to our clinic as a speech language pathologist. I went on to get my first graduate degree at Indiana University in opera performance, and then that was my previous career.

Jennifer: Then I went back seeking more anatomy and physiology and just a different aspect of the instrument. For various reasons, I was compelled to get my master's in speech language pathology at Pacific University here in Oregon, and then I did my externship at OHSU in the Northwest Clinic for Voice and Swallowing. I was partially in the head and neck unit as well as working with voice.

Jennifer: I have a unique experience in that I shortly thereafter, Dr. Ziegler contacted me with this fabulous idea of starting the Wellness Group. I ended up becoming a co-director of the Wellness Group and starting my clinical fellowship simultaneously.

Kadie: So you were working for OHSU and you were finishing up, Jennifer?

Jennifer: Yes, that is where we initially met.

Erin: Yeah, so I said, well, let me think about it. I didn't take me too long to think, you know what? Let's do this.

Jennifer: I had seen his work. I also had been an entrepreneur my whole life, and so it was, you were speaking to doing your own thing versus our team effort, and I really am extremely grateful for the team aspect. Because as I'm sure we will talk about more, there are many layers to having your own independent practice and to share that. I think we bring different things to the table, so that even adds to the depth of our clinic.

Kadie: Absolutely. So what year did the Wellness Group begin?

Jennifer: 2019.

Kadie: 2019?

Jennifer: August of 2019 was when we started seeing clients. We established a month before. The LLC in June, yeah.

Kadie: Wow. So it kind of hit the ground running, and a year and a half later, it's still full speed ahead.

Erin: Yeah. Throw a pandemic in there, too.

Kadie: Yeah, throw a pandemic in, and that's where we're at. Wow.

Jennifer: No, but wonderfully, yeah, positive experience and has continued to grow despite some very challenging times for all of us. And I think that really speaks to what we're offering to our clients and to the communities that we serve.

Kadie: So you began with the hopes of having an in-person facility, or? Okay, you did. Now tell me how that all transpired and where it's at today and what's happening in the future.

Erin: Great question. Did you want me to start that, Erin?

Jennifer: Yeah, go ahead.

Jennifer: So, yes, we definitely started with in-person, but keeping our overhead low and working out of, actually, it was out of Erin's home is the initial clinic that we had established. And we were just about to start looking for a brick and mortar right before COVID, and we are very thankful that we did not take that leap. Because as Erin said, we had already established, because of our importance of being accessible, we're always trying to improve ways to have access to our services.

Jennifer: We were already set up with teletherapy, and so it was a pretty smooth transition for us, and we are thankful for that. And so who knows what the future holds as far as a physical clinic at some point, but that is where we are now, so we were thankful that we hadn't quite made that leap.

Kadie: Anything you wanted to add to that, Erin?

Erin: Oregon's an interesting, Portland is an interesting community. I think in some places, mobile services wouldn't work as well, but in Portland and Oregon, mobile services, I think, are appreciated. And so while initially we had anticipated purchasing a building and then growing into that building and renting out some of the space, I think actually our next step will be a mobile aspect to our services.

Erin: So providing imaging services through either a van or an RV, maybe even considering the need to be outdoors and not in small, not in confined spaces with lots of people. Even establishing sort of like a medical pod, like a food cart pod, but a medical cart pod. You'd have disciplines that you need, so speech pathology, maybe OT, there'd be a pod, cart, PT cart. There could even be equipment outside for the PT to use and create this sort of different experience with your health that minimizes any exposure with small quarters and lots of people inside.

Erin: I think, at least for the foreseeable future, we're really looking at a different type of administering care in a different way. And we've sought to invest in our teletherapy services by getting state-of-the-art equipment, so our microphones being of a very specific specifications, like a flat frequency response curve and having a preamplifier that allows us to control the gain.

Erin: Having our backdrop for people to know where they're at, that they're at the Wellness Group, that they've arrived at the right place. I mean, with online services, you're just out there in the interwebs, right? And you want to feel when you arrive someplace, even if it's the Zoom room or a Google Meet room, that you're with the person you're supposed to be with and feeling like it's a safe space to explore. Because especially exploring voice is a very personal process. So that's sort of what we're doing with space and where we're headed.

Kadie: Yes, you contacted Jennifer about this idea in 2019. What were the initial steps at that point?

Erin: So, developing the LLC, getting, the very beginning was the must-do's: LLC, liability insurance, starting a bank account.

Jennifer: And what else, Erin? Getting our just getting business licenses and certifications, PIN, tax number.

Erin: And really, I think, before you can even do that, you have to establish a name. Yeah, right, name, branding, logo. And just thinking about who you are. So I think the first step before you go into a private practice is, why do I want to do this? And how do I foresee myself doing this? What does it look like? What do the services look like? What kinds of services do I want to offer?

Erin: We offer both habilitation as well as rehabilitation for disordered speech and voice and swallowing. And so, coming up with a name, that's what people see and hear when they're thinking about your clinic and what image you want them to have about the care they're going to get and the clinic they're going to establish a relationship with.

Erin: And you obviously need the name for all of those items that Jennifer listed, but it's not just the name that you're coming up with, you're coming up with a concept. And a mission. And a vision. And where you fit in the community. And we really looked at that too, where there's a need.

Jennifer: Do we just specialize in voice? We decided for us, we wanted to be a little more diverse and continue with speech and swallowing as well. And all of those things to consider as well. But there was a big need in our community for voice services in particular, especially of what we're bringing.

Jennifer: We both are conservatory trained singers and performers, and our clients are often gracing stages of Broadway or the West End or other stages throughout the world. They're winning awards and accolades for their art form, their singing, their performing. And so we come with this really technical, highly trained background in the performing arts that really is limited in our community. There's maybe one or two other people who really have the conservatory training that we bring.

Jennifer: And so that was something that we felt was going to be a focus of ours. One, because that was our passion. And two, there was a significant need, especially for services on the east side of Portland, where there was virtually no services for adult and pediatric voice.

Erin: I would also add a specialty and a passion of mine and ours is serving gender-affirming voice and communication, where there was also a need to improve access to care. And we've done a lot of work in the community, too. We saw a need there as well.

Kadie: Absolutely. And what were your first steps on spreading your specializations and getting your name of business out there?

Erin: I would say it's ongoing, for sure. First steps. Well, I think we had two different processes. One is a local process and one was more of a global process, reaching out beyond the local community.

Erin: Jennifer has been in Portland for a long time, about 20 years or maybe more. And so we focused our efforts locally by engaging with the contacts that Jennifer had, as well as my contacts, but I had only been in Portland for five or six years. And so it made sense to leverage Jennifer's experience living here in Portland and building relationships with the community members.

Erin: And then my work experience has led me around the United States, but also to different parts of the world. And so the other approach was to make sure people, our colleagues around the country and other places knew that we were available for services.

Erin: Using social media to allow for reaching out to people who aren't in, well, reaching out globally and locally, social media has been helpful. And then when we can, in person, it's obviously a wonderful way to build relationships. And so I think starting with, regardless of whether we were trying to leverage our local contacts or our contacts outside of Portland, focusing on SLPs.

Jennifer: Right. Yeah, we did. Literally, as we called it, set designated days where we hit the pavement with ENTs and just really reaching out that we existed and were in the community. And we scheduled a few meetings where we would go in and present what we had to offer. And just, yeah, so there were lots of different ways that we did it. Calling, going in person, just trying to reach out.

Erin: We also established a newsletter that we published three times a year. It's called Vocal Notes. And it really serves to obviously provide information to potential patients, to clinicians. But I also see it as a way to let potential referral sources who are physicians know about what an SLP does and advocate for our services when it's appropriate.

Erin: And one of the ways we can build those relationships is by showing our expertise, showing our knowledge, showing that we can achieve very successful outcomes. That you don't fail voice therapy. Nobody fails voice therapy. Perhaps the referral for voice therapy was misplaced, or the timing of that referral for voice therapy was misplaced, or we didn't account for other factors beyond the diagnosis, like the patient's ability to participate because of their depression is low.

Erin: There's so many reasons why voice therapy outcomes can be successful. And then there are reasons why some may not achieve successful outcomes at that moment. But as long as the referral makes sense, and everything is in place, voice can be incredibly helpful. And we need to educate the public. We need to educate our doctors about our services. And this newsletter helps to do that as well. So it's a tool for education.

Kadie: I think it's so important to realize the place that a specialty has. As an SLP, so many people come to me with an infant feeding and swallowing question or a Parkinson's voice question. And I'm like, you realize I've worked with pediatric language and I wouldn't even know where to start or who to refer to. So like you said, a newsletter and educating other SLPs, the community, it's going to pay off in the long run.

Kadie: When was the point where you did get your first client? Was it shortly after starting? Or how did that look?

Jennifer: Yes, it was in August. And that was a community just word of mouth. That was our very first client. So I would say it was short. We established our LLC in June. Our first client was August 15, as I recall.

Kadie: What kind of equipment for specializing in voice, speech, and swallowing? I imagine the swallowing being one of the more expensive aspects of the business. What kind of purchases did you have to make up front?

Erin: Well, we had to buy equipment to be able to measure the voice and to record speech. Swallowing, we're not in a position to buy a radiology suite. So we're not offering modified barium swallow studies, although I do know somebody who does mobile MBSS. And it's something that I'm highly open to in considering. But that would be a very expensive purchase, probably the most expensive purchase.

Erin: So we were, just as COVID was happening, looking at purchasing additional equipment for scope for stroboscopy and fees. And that is going to be quite an expensive piece of equipment. But I think it's well worth it because we need to know what we're working on and make sure.

Erin: I heard you say, well, people are occasionally asking me questions about populations or disorders that are within my specialty. And it's so important that we know what we're working on. And then if it's not something that speech pathology can help, or like you said, if it's out of your specialization, knowing when to refer out.

Erin: And that's super important to us that we only, in terms of people referring to you, they're only going to want to refer to you if you generally have decent outcomes. And so knowing what your abilities and where your abilities fall short is so important. Because if you're not familiar with this type of client or type of disorder, trying to do that without the expertise, without the specialty, would be harder.

Erin: And so we tend to refer out for things like language or cognition. And reading, for instance, is something that we would definitely refer out for. But we're going to stick to more motor deficits in voice speech and swallowing or lesion-based phonotrauma and phonogenic voice disorders. And you need to be able to record. You need certain equipment. And it's relatively cheap, relatively. But there is definitely startup cost. We had to front some money before we had money coming in. But you just continually grow and build piece by piece.

Kadie: Yes, absolutely. And how many clients would you say in total you all have currently on caseload?

Erin: Well, we see clients for less time, I think, than other settings. So there's a lot of rollover because you see somebody for four sessions, and then they're discharged, and then there's more patients. And so it's a really nice situation. We're meeting lots of new people and getting to serve the community through different populations.

Erin: So throughout these, now it's almost 18 months that we've been in practice, we've just been growing and seeing more different age ranges. So I've seen a patient who is three years old and has vocal fold nodules. And so that's been fun. And then we see patients who have presbyphonia, and they're 60. Or we have patients with muscle tension dysphonia and their U2 personalities.

Erin: And then we have people who are seeking to align their gender identity and their vocal expression. And it's just been a wonderful growth of patients and really word of mouth has been a big piece of it, I think, that we are providing something that is personal, that is helpful, and that doesn't eat up a lot of people's schedule.

Jennifer: Because our mission is to be efficient and effective, and our particular model of establishing initial frequent visits closer and then spreading out. But it does fluctuate from week to week, the numbers that we have. Definitely our ethics and our philosophy, and it eventually will be a good business model. But they're done with us in four to six sessions, which is our goal. We meet their goals.

Jennifer: But yeah, so then it does fluctuate as far as numbers. We're adding another clinical fellow starting March 1. Libby Lavella, perfect. That's exciting. So that will be a lot of fun as we build her caseload.

Erin: And she's licensed in California. And so she'll bring, she has a linguistics background. She's a Grammy-nominated vocalist. She's also a vocal producer, and I think, and then was born and raised in Australia. So it will be really exciting to have her perspective on board.

Kadie: You have quite the resumes behind your team. What happens if Joe Schmoe SLP comes along? People like me.

Erin: Then Joe Schmoe SLP comes along, and we want to help them and perhaps employ them too. They don't need to have, there's no requirement other than a desire to help.

Kadie: As far as the business aspects, Jennifer, you said your background did have some previous business experience. Have you taken on a role as far as taxes or paperwork, or have you guys sourced that out?

Jennifer: Excellent question. As we are building, it's been Erin and I together dividing all of that. And that's a very realistic part of, there's so many aspects to independent practice. And we have the clinical aspect, we have outreach, we have research. Erin does a lot of research and continues that, and we all are on our team.

Jennifer: And then we have the administrative, and all of that part. So I would say anyone interested in starting an independent practice has to be hungry for learning every day, whether it be clinical, whether it be learning how to fax in a new system, with a new doctor. And so, yes, right now, Erin and I have divided that up.

Jennifer: With me in my clinical fellowship year at first, I was more focused on the clinical aspects. And so he took on some of that. But it's a group effort here. And yeah, constantly refining our system and our services.

Erin: I'm just a person who has to have, if there's structure to the way I'm doing something, and I figure out the best or most efficient way, then fine, let's learn it. And then I will do it. And I can check away at that every day. But when you're starting the business, I just feel like your wheels are turning on how am I tracking all these finances, incoming, outgoing? You just have to get it started.

Jennifer: Right. And I think that's really well said, that it's like a building process. And we have to consider expenses. And of course, there are lots of, there are systems with lots of bells and whistles. But they cost more. And so you have to consider that give and take relationship with the finances.

Erin: One of the things that I felt there wasn't in academic medicine was a lot of waste, financial waste. And so we've tried to eliminate some of that waste so that our services can be affordable, and we're not wasting money and wasting resources.

Kadie: Yes. Do you take insurance or are you all private pay?

Erin: So we accept Medicare Part B, and we do have a wonderful, it's called a spot contract with Kaiser. So when they're unable to meet the needs of their clients within, we are an option for, and so then we were able to bill through Kaiser. Other than that, we are out of network private pay.

Erin: And so how we've done that is we explain to our clients that we can provide a super bill, which then they, with all of the necessary codes, we encourage them to look before they start services to see what coverage might look like, but that it's private pay or they submit for reimbursement.

Erin: And like you said, some services aren't covered by insurance. Generally, some voice disorders are consistently not covered and as well as some speech conditions. So we decided to put our efforts towards Medicare Part B because it is a consistent payer that covers most of what we would bill for. And also our older adults tend to be on fixed income, so their ability to pay out of pocket is more of a challenge for some.

Erin: And then we have, within our private pay though, we have services that are bundled versus pay as you go. And the bundled services offer a discount to the pay as you go model, and that's to obviously bring down the cost as well. And then we have a group model where we provide some services in the group model.

Kadie: You want to talk about that, Jen?

Jennifer: Yeah. I was just going to say, because Erin and I feel so strongly about improving access to care, one of the ways that we've tried to get creative is particularly with gender affirming voice and communication that unfortunately is not always covered.

Kadie: And it can be sometimes. I was curious about that.

Jennifer: Well, there's a select couple of insurances. Not very many. There's a select few. So yes. But, and hopefully we're always fighting to improve that.

Jennifer: In the meantime, so yes, Erin and I came up with a group model that has been really successful to reduce cost. It's a wonderful community aspect that they have each other that they bring to the class. And so we actually have started our second series just this, over this winter, all online. The first time was in person. Now we've shifted gears to creating an online version and it's been a really wonderful experience.

Kadie: That's great. So group is a way to cut back costs, you know, and then being efficient, right?

Erin: So I talk about how when, depending on where you go, you might have 10, 20 sessions that costs more, right? But also your time, right? Your time is valuable. So if we can accomplish it in six sessions or five sessions or four sessions, not only is it cheaper because you're having fewer sessions, so the overall cost of sessions is less, but you also have your time back.

Erin: You have 14 hours potentially, or five hours potentially that is free for you to do what you want to do. And that's my goal for my patients is to have them do the things that they want to do with their lives, not spending time with me. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean that in a very positive way that we get what we need to do done and then you're able to continue your journey, your life.

Kadie: Right. I think of it like my son who's three, he does these ISR swim lessons and people don't understand why I can't just do once a week swim lessons from age three to five till he could swim at age five. Aside the point from not wanting him to drown, we're getting it done every day for six weeks and it's an expense for six weeks. But he's not, I mean, we might check in before each summer, but we're not doing this for five years before we know how to swim, you know?

Erin: Right. Yeah. Let's get it done.

Kadie: Yes, exactly. Well, your business model is so exciting and new because I'm just Midwest, Illinois resident, always wanted to go to Portland, but I just think you guys are going to take off and I wish you the best of luck. Is there anything that you'd like to share as far as advice for our listeners?

Erin: One piece of advice I would leave the listeners with is to be graceful with yourself and know that you have your strengths and you have things that you need to outsource or you need to draw others who have strengths that are different than yours to complement you. It's not, even when you're a sole practitioner, you're not going to do everything alone. You're going to have to rely on some other people for some things. And that's okay.

Jennifer: And that's okay. Well, it sounds like working together has worked out well. I'm very grateful for Erin and sharing the, yeah, it's nice to share the load with someone. But you do have to, I would say, yes, my advice on that is be clear that if there is more than one person, that you have the same vision and the same mission.

Jennifer: And I think Erin and I were really aligned in that we wanted to create something different and authentic in Portland. And you have to have that drive to always be an advocate for yourselves, for our profession and our clients. It's a daily commitment. It's all about the clients, as always.

Kadie: That's right. Well, thank you so much to both of you, Erin and Jennifer.

Erin: Thank you.

Jennifer: Thank you so much for having us.

Kadie: Thank you for joining me and listening to Clinic Chats, the speech therapist's private practice podcast. If you have a moment, please leave a five-star review for Clinic Chats to help other SLPs find our podcast. If you'd like to share your own personal journey through private practice, please email me at kadie at clinicnote dot com. That's K-A-I-D-E at clinicnote dot com.